Основной племенной состав халхасцев.

[Гость urartu05]

What is jigon?

[Гость Tul]

What is jigon?

What is "ism"?

[Гость Dan]

What is jigon?

What is "ism"?

ПРИ ЧЕМ ТУТ -ИЗМ. НЕ МОЖЕТЕ ОТВЕТИТЬ ТАК И СКАЖИТЕ. ВЫ КСТАТИ МОНГОЛ ИЛИ ТЮРК, ИЛИ КТО? У БАШКИР ЙИГЕН КАЖЕТСЯ, У КАЗАХОВ ЖИЕН,

И ДР. ТЮРКОВ. В ЗНАЧЕНИИ ПЛЕМЯННИК ИСПОЛЬЗУЕТСЯ ДО СИХ ПОР. ПОЧЕМУ НИКТО НЕ СКАЗАЛ ЭТО ТАК ДОЛГО?

[Buryadai]

Хайст овог фамилия Сухбаатара

Я слышал что в последнее время монголы, а в частности, монгольские буряты все чаще начинают утверждать что Сухбаатар был бурятом. Если это правда то Хайс - это может быть Хори бурятский род ХУАСАЙ.

Так же предоставляются интересные аргументы в защиту "бурятского просихождения" генерала Суха.

-Он лично способствовал перекочевке и занятию бурятами из России местности Цагаан-Обоо в аймаке Дорнод.

-Он порой одевал бурятскую дель - дэгэл- и говорят превосходно владел бурятским наречием.

-генерал Сух кроме этого еще владел и русским языком.

-генерал Сух разбирался в военном деле и владел организаторскими навыками, что для простого монгольского арата врядли бы представлялось возможным.

По этой версии он вполне возможно мог являтся сыном бурятского приграничного казака, который в какой-то момент по различным причинам мог откочевать в Монголию на рубеже 19-20 веков.

-генерал Сух освободил Хяагту и вообще действовал вдоль бурятских кочевий и легко контактировал с бурятами.

Ваши мнения?

[BAWIR$AQ]

Map of ethnic groups

http://www.chriskaplonski.com/images/ethnicmap_med.jpg

An impression of the location of the various ethnic groups in Mongolia. Because of the need to reduce the scale to fit on this page, it doesn't give more than an impression. Click on the map to load a (rather) larger version in a new window, or right-click on the map to save. That will give you a map large enough to read the labels of the groups and towns.

This map is basically Map 23 from B. Rinchen's 1979 Ethnographic and linguistic atlas of the Mongolian People's Republic (Ulaanbaatar, Academy of Sciences). I've added the English labels, but that's about it. I've attempted to tweak the colors a bit to make it a bit easier to distinguish between them, but I haven't been very successful. Still, it will do for now. Since the map is from 1979, it obviously doesn't reflect the newest administrative divisions.

Ethnic groups

Although most people probably think of Mongolia as being inhabited by a single ethnic group - the Mongols - this is wrong. There are actually quite a few. As I note on the background page, there are over 20 different groups of Mongols. Nineteen of these, and one non-Mongol group (the Kazakhs) live in Mongolia itself (according to Rinchen's 1979 atlas.) While peaceful, these ethnic differences sometimes matter in Mongolia when it comes to politics. I'll discuss that at some point in the hopefully not-too-distant future.

Somewhat oddly, the 2000 census doesn't list give a full list of the different ethnic groups in Mongolia. Or at least the principal collection of statistics doesn't. It's possible one of the ancillary publications does, but I don't have access to them at the moment. So here is the information as provided in the main results of the 2000 census (pp. 50-51 in the Mongolian version.)

Scroll down past the table of populations to see the full listing of ethnic groups as given in B. Rinchen's 1979 Ethnographic and linguistic atlas of the Mongolian People's Republic, map 23.

It's also worth noting that there was a reported drop of almost 20,000 in the Kazakh population between 1989 and 2000. In the early 1990s, a large number of Kazakhs took advantage of new-found freedoms to try life in Kazakhstan. There was also a reported drop of over 48,000 foreigners. This would have been the thousands of Soviet and Eastern European citizens who had been living and working in Mongolia, and returned to their homelands with the collapse of the socialist bloc.

Ethnic group Population | thousands | Percentage of total population

Mongolian citizens (all) 2365.4 99.7

Halh (Халх) 1934.7 81.5

Kazakh (Казах / Хасаг) 103.0 4.3

Dörvöd (Дєрвєд) 66.7 2.8

Bayaad (Баяд) 50.8 2.1

Buriad (Буриад) 40.6 1.7

Dariganga (Дариганга) 31.9 1.3

Zahchin (Захчин) 29.8 1.3

Urianhai (Урианхай) 25.2 1.1

Others 82.6 3.5

Foreigners 8.1 0.3

Total 2373.5 100.0

The full list

These are given in no particular order, except as given by Rinchen.

Halh (Халх)

Hotgoid (Хотгойд)

Darhad (Дархад)

Eljgin (Элжгин)

Sartuul (Сартуул)

Dariganga (Дариганга)

Üzemchin (Vзэмчин)

Kazakh (Казах / Хасаг)

Urianhai - Altai (Урианхай - Алтайн)

Hoton (Хотон)

Buriad (Буриад)

Barga (Барга)

Dörvöd (Дєрвєд)

Zahchin (Захчин)

Torguud (Торгууд)

Bayaad (Баяд)

Hoshuud (Хошууд)

Myangad (Мянгад)

Ööld (Єєлд)

Urianhai - Tsaatan (Урианхай - Цатаан)

http://www.chriskaplonski.com/mongolia/ethnicgroups.html

[Гость Хазгууд баатаар]

Казахский национальный костюм что-то не совсем на казахский похож.

[Sartuul Mongol]

Казахский национальный костюм что-то не совсем на казахский похож.

I think you are wrong. Kazakh national costume is as same as it was 100 years ago. Little picture on the map is also correct image for kazakh woman.

While i am reading the post, i realized that Kazakhs in Mongolia are more genuine Kazakh than others.

[tmadi]

While i am reading the post, i realized that Kazakhs in Mongolia are more genuine Kazakh than others.

What does it stand for? So, if you're damned right, we're crude forgery? Thank you a lot. Do you realize, sweetheart, that this statement is of a rasist character?

[Sartuul Mongol]

What does it stand for? So, if you're damned right, we're crude forgery? Thank you a lot. Do you realize, sweetheart, that this statement is of a rasist character?

How can it be racist statement when we are same race ? Don't exagerate , if you are too sensitive to such comments, keep your issues in yourself -Ok.

I meant that Kazakhs in Mongolia are quite original in their way of life, belief, custom and language. They don't mix with Mongolians, Mongolians respect their identity and cultural differences.

Aren't they wonderful people who kept the great tradition of Eagle hunting. Mongols already forget their tradition of eagle hunting and falconry. Kazakhs of Mongolia is only people who keep it alive

[tmadi]

How can it be racist statement when we are same race ?

German and Russian belong to the same race too, but it did not stand in the way of the racist attitude of Nazis to Russians. Do you understand what I mean?

I meant that Kazakhs in Mongolia are quite original in their way of life, belief, custom and language. They don't mix with Mongolians, Mongolians respect their identity and cultural differences.

I mean that Kazakh in Kazakhstan are original at all on default, cause it's the lifestyle of whole the nation. Some borrowings from neighbours (Russians, Uzbeks etc.) are admissible and even desirable. Mongolians could escape the benefits of cultural exchange maybe, but I'm not so sure.

Isn't it wonderful people who kept the great tradition of Eagle hunting. Mongols already forget their tradition of eagle hunting and falconry. Kazakhs of Mongolia is only people who keep it alive

I guess, you know nothing about Kazakhstan. If the only presence of Eagle Hunting and falconry can be used as the indicator of nation's authenticity, I assure, we have it too in our homeland. Maybe you got something else to prove the inferiority of my people? Or just not to show your incompetence (most preferable and strongly recommended).

[Sartuul Mongol]

Mr Tmadi!!!

You are making situation very complicated. I have no wish to argue with you over racism or someone's inferiority complex because i am myself not that familiar with those terms which i or we don't use such words in our entire life.

Are you from US? As i know racism is quite serious legal issue there. I don't want to go that far. END

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[Sartuul Mongol]

I mean that Kazakh in Kazakhstan are original at all on default, cause it's the lifestyle of whole the nation. Some borrowings from neighbours (Russians, Uzbeks etc.) are admissible and even desirable. Mongolians could escape the benefits of cultural exchange maybe, but I'm not so sure.

I did not undermine originality of Kazakhstan-homeland of Kazakhs. As for Mongolia, Mongolia is still

I guess, you know nothing about Kazakhstan.

You might be right. I have never been in Kazakhstan.

If the only presence of Eagle Hunting and falconry can be used as the indicator of nation's authenticity, I assure, we have it too in our homeland. Maybe you got something else to prove the inferiority of my people? Or just not to show your incompetence (most preferable and strongly recommended).

I don't get what you are trying to tell me. I did not say that Eagle hunting as indicator of a nation's authenticity. All i can say is that my friend/former classmate Cerikbai told me once Kazakhs of Bayan-Olke are only people who still have eagle hunting.

If you have your proof that is fine, show me your pictures.

I did not say about inferiority of anyone. I think you are on edge of depression that suspecting everyone as hostile. Relax- is my advise for you

[Sartuul Mongol]

Traditional dress of Kazakh people

Bayan-Olgii Kazakh Women

Bayan-Olgii Kazakh Man

[tmadi]

Mr Tmadi!!!

You are making situation very complicated. I have no wish to argue with you over racism or someone's inferiority complex because i am myself not that familiar with those terms which i or we don't use such words in our entire life.

Are you from US? As i know racism is quite serious legal issue there. I don't want to go that far. END

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, if you don't want to go that far, moreover, cannot be responsible for the words you spoke:

i realized that Kazakhs in Mongolia are more genuine Kazakh than others.

and have not a clue how to apologize to that, shut up - is my advice for you. END

P.S. I'm not from US, if you still couldn't understand. I'm a Kazakhstan citizen.

[Sartuul Mongol]

and have not a clue how to apologize to that, shut up - is my advice for you. END

P.S. I'm not from US, if you still couldn't understand. I'm a Kazakhstan citizen.

Ok, If my that particular comment was that much seriously hurting to you. I am deeply sorry for making such a unwise generalization.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS:- But now i can say that i know much more genuine Kazakh guys than you who seems like under deep depression with overwelming insecurity, whining over nothing. You need to RELAX

[tmadi]

more genuine Kazakh guys than you

There's NO any more or less genuine Kazakh, you racist freak. It's the single whole nation.

whining over nothing.

Whining over nothing is your provocation to divide my nation for eugenics. This way of international communication sucks entirely.

You need to RELAX

Not your business what I really need. At least, I never try to to make the similar delirious comparison of various Mongolian tribes because I have sufficient respect for these people (but not for racist freaks as you).

[Sartuul Mongol]

Khalkha mongol womans' dress

Khalkha mongol mans' dress

[Алтай]

Уважаемый Sartuul Mongol, а как называется головной убор, который носят казахи (он приведен на Вашем рисунке) в Баян-Ульгийском аймаке?

[Гость Хазгууд баатаар]

Dear sartuul mongol, no matter to tmadi's words

Kazakhs respect our mongol brothers and sisters and mongolian culture.

Take care,

[Уральский казак]

Is a raсist someone who discriminates any other ethnic groups?

Tmadi openly expressed ideas which would be considered truly racist.

He firmly stands for the racial discrimination ”subhuman” Russian people, refused to flee Kazakhstan.

"Нow to apologize to that"?

[Гость Хазгууд баатаар]

Is a raсist someone who discriminates any other ethnic groups?

Tmadi openly expressed ideas which would be considered truly racist.

He firmly stands for the racial discrimination ”subhuman” Russian people, refused to flee Kazakhstan.

"Нow to apologize to that"?

agree :kg1:

[Гость Хэрэйд Монгол]

Нет среди современных монголов ни кереитов (кереев), ни жалаиров, ни коныратов, ни найманов, ни онгутов (уак) - всех тех, кто фигурируют в "Сокровенном Сказании", и с которыми Чингиз хан и его "монголы" свободно разговаривали на чистом тюркском языке. А у современных казахов они почему-то есть - и в очень больших количествах.

:tw1: У Халха Монголов есть Хэрэйд, Хэрээ,Хонхэрэйд.Жалайр.Мэргэд.Найман.Хивчааг.монголов.

Они являются чистым монголом как боржгон аймаг.У ойратов тоже самое повсюду.

[Timirhan]

Прошу скинуть информацию об родоплеменном составе монголов, бурят, калмыков в виде инфы или ссылки на сайт !

Заранее благодарен !

[Урянхаец]

ПОищи в библиотеке или ранних постах.

По монголам пост ЧУлуу тема монголы самый первые посты.

по бурятам статья Б.Нанзатова в библиотеке.

По калмыкам открой, там есть статьи тоже.

А так у них родовой состав очень далекий от якутского.

У Халха позаимствований много от казахов. Кто у кого перенял об этом СПОР?

Буряты от джунгар и халха, многие эвенкийского происхождения.

Калмыки сплошные оригиналы, у них есть очень древние элементы.

[vbyubzy]

ПОищи в библиотеке или ранних постах.

По монголам пост ЧУлуу тема монголы самый первые посты.

по бурятам статья Б.Нанзатова в библиотеке.

По калмыкам открой, там есть статьи тоже.

А так у них родовой состав очень далекий от якутского.

У Халха позаимствований много от казахов. Кто у кого перенял об этом СПОР?

Буряты от джунгар и халха, многие эвенкийского происхождения.

Калмыки сплошные оригиналы, у них есть очень древние элементы.

Оригиналы? в чем?

древние элементы? бухусы (быки)? чонса (волки)? керяд (вороны)? или что-то иное?

Старина Железнобокий, взгляните-ка сюда http://www.elista.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13099

http://www.elista.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13264

http://www.elista.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13244

http://www.elista.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13289

http://www.elista.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=12549