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asan-kaygy

Гаплотип пророка Мухаммеда

Question

http://www.rodstvo.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=1118&st=0

Халиф Али ибн Абу Талиб (600-661) может считаться подтвержденным (J1e), а значит такой же гаплотип был у пророка.

Данные в основном вот отсюда:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/sharifs

Гаплотип пророка Мухаммеда

http://s42.radikal.ru/i095/0910/d4/84a913e977e0.jpg

Потомки Мухаммеда и его дяди (Аббасиды):

http://i028.radikal.ru/0910/7b/9faf5290862d.jpg

http://s41.radikal.ru/i092/0910/6f/e91239aab89b.jpg

Статистика по отметившимся:

Подлинные Сайиды

ОАЭ - 2

Тунис - 1

Хорасан - 1

Неподлинные Сайиды, отнесенные по гаплотипу

Алжир - 4

Индия - 3

Тунис - 2

Саудовская Аравия - 1

Хиджаз - 1

Ирак - 1

Сомалиленд - 1

ОАЭ - 1

Марокко - 1

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Представитель татарской княжеской семьи Чанышевых оказался в шаге от модального гаплотипа пророка Мохаммеда.12,23,14,11,13,18,11,17,11,13,11,30

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Т.е. Чанышев имеет отношение к Пророку Мухаммеду? А что с нашими сайидами?

Возможно.

А насчет наших сеидов, возможно сдававшие относились к кожа, которые в некоторых случаях не восходят к пророку.

Два кожа (какой подрод внутри кожа не понятно) имеют гаплогруппу отличную от гаплогруппы пророка (j1e).

Один происходит из Ближнего востока (гаплогруппа Е), другой походу местного происхождения.

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Guest Зиядоглу

Теперь я спрашиваю себя, сколько же наших сеидов не подлинные?

Я сам по матери из сеидов)))

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Теперь я спрашиваю себя, сколько же наших сеидов не подлинные?

Я сам по матери из сеидов)))

Протестируйте мужских родственников матери, тогда и узнаете. :ph34r:

Неподлинность может быть тремя способами.

1. Приемные дети, у которых У отличается биологически.

2. Адюльтер, одна из прабабок не смогла сохранить верность предку и согрешила с кем-нибудь

3. Приписывание к роду.

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http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090619/NATIONAL/706189822/0/inc

DNA could illuminate Islam’s lineage

Rasha Elass

Last Updated: June 18. 2009 10:57PM UAE / June 18. 2009 6:57PM GMT For almost 1,600 years, the title Sharif, Sayyed, or Habib has been bestowed on Muslims who have been able to trace their roots back to the Prophet Mohammed through intricate family trees, oral histories and genealogical records. But now an American DNA lab says it may have identified the DNA signature of descendants of the Prophet Mohammed, and perhaps the prospect of a direct, more accurate means of confirming or identifying such a connection.

Family Tree DNA, a genealogy and genetics-testing company in Houston, Texas, says it made the discovery after several clients, reputed by oral family histories and some supporting documentation to be descended from the Prophet Mohammed, asked to have their paternal DNA sequences mapped.

“With these various samples, we were able to identify an overlapping signature in their DNA, a common thread for all of them, which is their genetic lineage from the Prophet, if their oral tradition is accurate,” said Bennett Greenspan, chief executive of Family Tree DNA, which is said to have amassed one of the largest DNA databases in the world.

The company declined to identify any of the men on the grounds of client privacy, but Mr Greenspan said “several samples came from men in different parts of the Arab world”.

Genetic testing can trace the maternal or paternal line by mapping the DNA in the sex chromosome passed on by parents. The father passes on the Y chromosome to his son and the mother her X chromosome, so only male descendants can trace both their patriarchal and matriarchal lineage. Female descendants, possessing two X chromosomes, can test only their matriarchal lineage, also known as mitochondrial DNA, or mtDNA.

In recent years there have been many projects attempting to identify the DNA signatures of famous people, tribes and populations that inhabit specific regions – sometimes with surprising results.

In 2003 a group of international geneticists found that eight per cent of men in what used to be the Mongolian Empire were descended from Genghis Khan. According to a ground-breaking paper in The American Journal of Human Genetics in 2003, this meant there were no fewer than 16 million descendants of the 12th-century ruler living today.

The DNA signature of Marie Antoinette is also said to have been determined, meaning anyone suspecting a genetic link to the former queen of France can confirm their royal roots by testing their mtDNA.

Such analysis can create controversy. When the DNA signature of Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the United States, was isolated, it appeared to give credence to the theory that Jefferson, revered as one of the America’s founding fathers, had fathered a child with his slave, Sally Hemmings.

But it could not be confirmed beyond a doubt because although Eston Hemmings, the child of the slave, shared the same Y chromosomal DNA as Jefferson, he could have been the offspring of any of Jefferson’s male relatives living in Virginia at the time.

The Prophet Mohammed had no surviving sons but his daughter Fatima married her paternal second cousin, Ali, producing two grandsons: Hassan and Hussein. Both have a traceable line of male descendants.

Because Ali and the Prophet Mohammed share the same grandfather, their paternal DNA is identical.

Descendants can confirm their lineage when they reflect similar patterns. Most Islamic scholars agree there is nothing objectionable about testing individual DNA – and countries such as the UAE encourage DNA use in criminal forensics – but there are complex rulings when it comes to using DNA in court for establishing lineage.

According to the Kuwait-based Islamic Organisation for Medical Sciences, a forum where scholars meet regularly to discuss scientific and medical ethics in Islam, the use of DNA is permissible in certain cases.

“A mechanism called qiyafah, similar to an expert witness, existed at the time of the Prophet,” said Sheikh Musa Furber, a scholar in Islamic law at the Abu Dhabi-based Tabah Foundation.

“The Prophet would send the people to an expert who can look at overall physical resemblance to deduce who might be the father. Today, instead of qiyafah, we should consider DNA testing.”

But Islamic courts do not accept DNA evidence in establishing the paternity of a child born in wedlock, as the law typically considers the mother’s husband to be the father, assuming she was not pregnant when married.

There is another issue that arises in the Islamic tradition when using DNA to establish lineage: “Lineage, or nasab, in Islamic law assumes lawful intercourse,” Sheikh Musa said. “But since a DNA test cannot prove lawful intercourse, it cannot stand as proof of lineage from a legal perspective.”

There are a few privately funded lineage projects in the region, such as the Arab DNA Project and the Arab J1e Y-DNA Project. The former is an online public forum with chat rooms and shared information for Arab men and women interested in their genetic lineage. The J1e project, accessible through the website of Family Tree DNA (at www.familytreedna.com) is more specialised. It is a forum for men whose Y chromosome belongs to the J1e haplogroup, a genetic grouping of Semitic tribes.

J1e is the genetic signature of the Hashemites, a clan to which the Prophet Mohammed belonged. The current King of Jordan, Abdullah II, is a Hashemite descendant, and one of the better-known living descendants of the Prophet Mohammed.

Just how many will test their own DNA to find a link remains to be seen, officials say. “When it comes to the Prophet, I’d rather live in doubt than receive certainty that I’m not related to him,” said Sheikh Furber.

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Как пояснил Беннет Гринспэн (Bennett Greenspan), исполнительный директор Family Tree DNA, для проведения анализа был собран целый банк данных ДНК сейидов из разных стран мира. Гаплогруппой пророка оказалась J1e, свойственная Хашемитам. Король Иордании Абдулла II – один из самых известных живых потомков пророка.

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Представитель татарской княжеской семьи Чанышевых оказался в шаге от модального гаплотипа пророка Мохаммеда.12,23,14,11,13,18,11,17,11,13,11,30

Знакомый татарин получил свои результаты, гаплогруппа та же, но к Мухаммеду отношения не имеет

12, 24, 14, 10, 13, 15, 11, 14, 12, 13, 11, 30

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Y chromosomes of self-identified Syeds from the Indian subcontinent show evidence of elevated Arab ancestry but not of a recent common patrilineal origin // Archaeol Anthropol Sci (2010) 2:217–224

DOI 10.1007/s12520-010-0040-1

Elise M. S. Belle et al.

Several cultural or religious groups claim descent

from a common ancestor. The extent to which this claimed

ancestry is real or socially constructed can be assessed by

means of genetic studies. Syed is a common honorific title

given to male Muslims belonging to certain families claim-

ing descent from the Prophet Muhammad through his

grandsons Hassan and Hussein, who lived 1,400 years ago

and were the sons of the Prophet’s daughter Fatima. If all

Syeds really are in direct descent from Hassan and Hussein,

we would expect the Y chromosomes of Syeds to be less

diverse than those of non-Syeds. Outside the Arab world,

we would also expect to find that Syeds share Y chro-

mosomes with Arab populations to a greater extent than

they do with their non-Syed geographic neighbours. In this

study, we found that the Y chromosomes of self-identified

Syeds from India and Pakistan are no less diverse than

those non-Syeds from the same regions, suggesting that

there is no biological basis to the belief that self-identified

Syeds in this part of the world share a recent common

ancestry. In addition to Syeds, we also considered members

of other hereditary Muslim lineages, which either claim

descent from the tribe or family of Muhammad or from the

residents of Medinah. Here, we found that these lineages

showed greater affinity to geographically distant Arab popu-

lations, than to their neighbours from the Indian subconti-

nent, who do not belong to an Islamic honorific lineage.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/publications/articles/2010/Belle_AAS10_Syed.pdf

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Как пояснил Беннет Гринспэн (Bennett Greenspan), исполнительный директор Family Tree DNA, для проведения анализа был собран целый банк данных ДНК сейидов из разных стран мира. Гаплогруппой пророка оказалась J1e, свойственная Хашемитам. Король Иордании Абдулла II – один из самых известных живых потомков пророка.

Уважаемый asan-kaygy, могу я считаться сейидом?

Я не разбираюсь в гаплогруппах как Вы. Хотел бы узнать Bаше мнение.

J1 - 12 23 14 10 13-18 11 16 11 13 11 30 17 8-9 11 11 25 14 20 25 12-14-16-16 11 8 22-22 15 14 17 16 32-37 11 10 11 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 11 9 0 21-22 20 10 12 12 14 8 13 26 22 14 12 10 14 12 12 12 11

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Azerbaijan/default.aspx?section=yresults

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В общем мне кажеться вам нужно дозаказать СНИПы по ДНК на проверку субклада, чтобы точно узнать какой ваш субклад.

П.С. Я не специализируюсь на данной гаплогруппе лучше спросить на молгене о ней.

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У меня среди предков были Саит-Шакуловы.

Y - DNA: J2e1

mt DNA: H6a - Helena

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Но они же были не по чисто мужской линии?

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А кто у нас из протестированных курейшиты?
 

M7176 Al-Alawi Al-Qurashi L657+ Y7-

234418 Al-Alawi

190263 Quraish L657+ Y7-

Вот табличка Y7-

http://www.semargl.me/ru/dna/ydna/haplotypes/table-color/580/

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